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Eric Dolphy: Out to Lunch

Eric Dolphy: Out to Lunch

Universal (Japan)  UCGQ-9020

Stereo Single Layer

Jazz


Eric Dolphy

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Comment by fausto kantiano - November 6, 2017 (1 of 6)

good that Japan remasters this masterpiece for SACD! Wasn't a remaster not also scheduled to come out with Analogue Productions?

Comment by Mark Werlin - November 8, 2017 (2 of 6)

The Analogue Productions Prestige Stereo SACD series of 25 titles includes these Eric Dolphy recordings: Out There, Outward Bound, Far Cry, and At the Five Spot.

I purchased the 24/192 download of Out to Lunch and the Blue Note 75 LP which is sourced from that 24/192 stereo transfer (engineering by Alan Yoshida). On my system, the hi-res file sounds much better than the LP. It's possible that EQ was applied (high end roll off) in the LP mastering process to make the LP sound more 'analogue'. I recommend the hi-res download.

Will this Universal Japan SHM-SACD series incoporate new transfers from Van Gelder's original master tapes, or the 24/192 transfers done in 2015 by Alan Yoshida and Bernie Grundman? Confirmation of the sources for these new SHM-SACDs would be welcome. They are among the most well-known and frequently remastered and reissued Blue Note titles.

The only title in this series that has been announced as a new (2017) transfer from original source tape to DSD is John Coltrane's Blue Train.

If there are any members of this site who are fluent in Japanese, please share English translations of the Universal Japan press releases about these SACDs.

Comment by fausto kantiano - November 8, 2017 (3 of 6)

Thanks, Mark, for those details. I have Out to Lunch on a 1998 RTI-pressed remaster, which sounds mighty fine. I'm not into download generally, so would prefer this new SACD. As for Blue Train, I think the analogue productions from 2010 will do, for me at least.

Comment by Tony Reif - July 17, 2018 (4 of 6)

So I just got this from Japan and Mark, you're right at least about this title, it is not the new DSD download master but a DSD conversion of the 24/192 2013 Alan Yoshida transfer. The track times/total time are exactly the same and different from the Robert Vosgien 2017 DSD transfer from the master tape which is available here (presumably only to Japanese customers):

http://mora.jp/package/43000006/00600753811047/

You'll find the 20 2017 Blue Note DSD masters here:

http://mora.jp/special/dsd_list_jazz

It is exactly the same list as the 2017 SACDs. But in almost all cases I think the sources are different - the SACDs use the 24/192 masters, if the descriptions on the CDJapan website are anything to go by.

CD Japan's descriptions are confusing: on the Out to Lunch page it says in English "reissue in SHM-SACD format with DSD mastering" while the Japanese description, using Google translate, calls it "the latest DSD master". Universal Japan's page says the same thing:

https://store.universal-music.co.jp/product/ucgq9020/

This is completely misleading. And nowhere online can one find anything specific, such as the track times or total time, or the copyright date, of the SACD. To make matters worse, the new DSD download and the SACD (at least of this title) were released on the same day. Wouldn't one expect them to be the same?

For some reason they used the 2017 DSD master for the Blue Train SACD but seemingly couldn't be bothered to do so for everything else. It's not as if those 24/192 masters had already been converted to DSD for previous release, in Japan or anywhere, so it makes no sense to me that they didn't use the new masters.

If I can get CDJapan to put me in touch with Universal Japan I'll give them a piece of my mind - er, try and get an explanation to share with y'all.

Comment by Tony Reif - July 18, 2018 (5 of 6)

From the info at Universal Japan it seems that the 4 December 6. 2017 releases (UCGQ9023 to 9026) are probably based on the new US DSD masters, so Blue Train, Whims of Chambers, Sonny's Crib and A Blowing Session, and the previous 16 titles with the November 29 release date are based on the old 24/192 transfers.

Just speculating, but it may come down to a money thing. Universal Japan licenses what they want from Universal, and since (maybe) they had already used the 24/192 transfers to release SHM-CDs of those 16 titles (can anyone confirm this? I can't be bothered to look them all up at CDJapan), they only licensed the new DSD masters for the 3 titles that had not been previously licensed, plus Blue Train to mark the 60th anniversary of its release.

Anyway, I don't know for sure that the Chambers, Clark and Griffin titles do in fact use the new masters, but it looks like their only SHM release used the RVG masters (except for Sonny's Crib, which didn't have an SHM-CD release).

Comment by Mark Werlin - July 25, 2018 (6 of 6)

Tony: Hats off to you for tracking down the mastering details about Universal Japan Blue Note Records SHM-SACDs. Since I'm satisfied with the 192/24 transfer of Out to Lunch, I'll probably pass on the SACD, even allowing that it might sound a little different from the hi-res download through conversion to DSD.

It is difficult to understand why the labels and vendors can't agree to disclose, in plain language, the source of the transfers. Hi-res downloads and SACDs are premium-priced commodities; if you're expected to pay more, you are entitled to know what you're paying for. I doubt that sales of the titles sourced from 192/24 transfers would be impacted if that information were clearly conveyed. SACD collectors want to own the physical object, not just the underlying music, and speculators will buy them to resell at a profit when they are out of print. Either way, the print run will be sold, so why not describe the contents more accurately?